Ever wondered how trauma impacts our lives and how we can heal?
Over the years, we have discovered that many of our participants who struggle with food and eating issues also are in relationships with people who struggle with appropriate sexual behavior.
Today, we are joined by Sherry from Grace Street Coaching, who helps illuminate the myriad ways trauma manifests in our lives and its impact on our mental health. Together, we share about personal journeys of overcoming betrayal in marriage, and how to rebuild trust by rooting the path to recovery in God's truth.
We also discuss the similarities between the misuse of food and the misuse of sex--both gifts from the Lord within boundaries that He has set for us.
Our conversation ventures into how traumatic experiences can trigger PTSD, anxiety, depression, and other issues. But we don't stop there. We bring to light the under-discussed subject of betrayal trauma and its far-reaching impact on men and women. Through Sherry's personal story of betrayal, we unravel the layers of shame stemming from childhood trauma and explore how safe spaces, faith and community help in breaking free from such cycles of shame.
As we wrap up our discussion, we highlight the critical work and value of empowering women to heal from past betrayals and foster healthy relationships. Tackling the subject of sexual addiction, we delve into its varied perceptions, and discuss the available resources that support women in their healing journey. Finally, we emphasize the importance of understanding the link between sexual addiction and betrayal, and the path to liberation from the cycle of coping mechanisms. Join us for this enlightening conversation and discover the tools to navigate the complexities of trauma and healing.
Learn more about our Revelation Within Community: https://www.revelationwithin.org
Hi and welcome to Revelation Within on the Go. I'm Heidi Bilesba-Epperson, one of your hosts and the owner and lead coach of the Revelation Within Minute Street.Speaker 2:
And I'm Christina Motley, your other host, also a Revelation Within coach and Heidi's partner in All Things Revelation Within. We are so happy to invite you to join us for this very special episode of Revelation Within on the Go.Speaker 1:
Oh, my goodness. Well, today we have a privilege of welcoming a very special friend of mine to our podcast. Sherri is a life coach and a small group leader who has specialized in meeting with women who need support navigating all kinds of life's challenges, and you'll find out more about that as we go on today. I'm so happy to introduce you to Sherri of Gray Street Coaching.Speaker 2:
Hi, we are so, so glad that you're here today.Speaker 3:
The warmest of welcomes, Thank you so much I appreciate you having me on the show. I'm excited for this.Speaker 1:
Hey, well, I want the listeners to know a little bit about where I found you, where you found me. Sherri and I met at a small group that we both attended. So, sherri, how about you tell the listener a little bit about that?Speaker 3:
Oh, I would love to. This is it's unique because it is a confidential group, but with you giving me permission to share how we met, I'm going to do that. The group is a healing type group. It's called Betrayal and Beyond. I've experienced betrayal in my marriage and not in the current marriage. I just want to say that yeah, and I was at a pretty, pretty hard place in my life and reached out to the peer desire group online to find an actual group in person that I could attend and drove an hour and a half every week for about I don't know 10 months to do this and it was life changing. I mean really life changing. It was a pivotal moment in my healing process. In my marriage we went through betrayal and what that looked like just to give you a brief background is my husband had a relapse with drugs after 23 years of variety and in that relapse we had betrayal and he had gone outside the marriage. So we had a broken marriage. We had a very broken marriage and had basically had to learn how to rebuild from the ground up, rebuild a foundation, you know, on God's truth, on God's word, and build trust, and you know all of the things that go along with the healing process.Speaker 1:
Beautiful. Well, I know too that I've mentioned on the podcast before that my husband, michael, and I had an amazing coach who helped us in so many ways and after working with us for five years, steve passed away quite unexpectedly this past spring and I bring that up because, for all intents and purposes, sherri was Steve's ministry partner. I want the listener to know and she's now carrying the torch of the Gray Street coaching team that Steve began and she worked alongside him and benefited from his wisdom too. That's kind of cool.Speaker 3:
Can I share that? That was another part of the healing process, even for us, was. You know, even though Steve and I were partners in the life coaching, he became a coach for us, for my husband and I, and that was a huge part of the healing process. We did the group work. He was in a seven pillars to freedom group for men getting freedom from sexual addiction, and then I was in the betrayal and beyond group getting freedom from the trauma.Speaker 1:
The wounds that come from that situation and actually what I learned working with Steve in ways my husband and I both worked with him is that many of the wounds that I had in early childhood were being triggered by the current situation. So, I was reacting and behaving sometimes not appropriately because of old wounds. Some of it was appropriate for what was in the present, and the same went for him. A lot of how we ended up where we were at was because of unprocessed childhood trauma that he had experienced and I had experienced. And he brought all that into our marriage and we had a big mess.Speaker 1:
It's like that proverbial elephant in the living room.Speaker 3:
But working with Steve one on one, outside of the group setting, gave us a chance to really dig deeper into that process and you know Steve calls it working on the spiritual cancer where we're digging in and we're finding the lies that we have learned or bought into and the vows that we've made because of those lies and we carry that into our current relationship.Speaker 1:
Thank you for sharing that.Speaker 2:
As most of you know, those who have been with us for a while, our vision and mission statement here at Revelation Within focuses on equipping and inspiring people to deepen their intimacy with the Lord so that they no longer turn to counterfeit comforts and coping mechanisms, and we have been talking about that for months. Here's yeah, yeah, we right, but in our podcast that is one of our biggest themes, of course is why are we turning to these counterfeit comforts?Speaker 1:
What's going on?Speaker 2:
there. What's going on behind the scenes? Let's go deeper with the Lord. As we know, there are a lot of different kinds of counterfeit comforts. Here at Revelation Within and Former Leaf In Within, we talk a lot about food and eating in our body image, but there are many, many other counterfeit comforts and there are many counterfeit comforts that come into and are similar to food and eating as well. It kind of all connects, it's all integrated together. So that kind of leads into what we're going to talk about today.Speaker 1:
It's not on the normal list of things we talk about, no, but it is one of the most prevalent comforts that many struggle with, other than food and eating, and that is sexual behavior, certain sexual behavior. And you know, one of the things that we haven't mentioned in our mission statement is the fact that a lot of the need we have we might not even recognize it is because of trauma in our lives, and we have mentioned trauma before on the podcast. I mean, and I know a lot of people think they haven't experienced trauma, and I'm going to say it again unless you were living on an island or under a rock during the COVID pandemic, you have been through trauma, because that's what we experienced as a world at that time, where there were shortages of things that we always took for granted, and so on and so forth. So many of us have experienced trauma long before that too. So what we turn to to quell the tide of that ache, that hurt, that need for reassurance and comfort or even disconnect, is what we call counterfeit comforts here at Revelation Within. And so we talk about food all the time, but we're going to touch on the topic of sex today.Speaker 2:
Oh well, and I'm just going to jump in and say you know, heidi and I have coached and walked alongside really hundreds of women over the past several years and these themes come up all the time. All the time, Most people yeah, most people come to us because of food and eating issues and body image and, like I said, it's kind of all woven in. Very, very often People come to us with issues that are unresolved from their past, issues of trauma and wounding and all kinds of different things. So this really does it all, comes in and relates.Speaker 1:
Yes, it does so, Sherry. You and I have talked about this quite a bit. Most recently, we had a chit chat with Christina about it but let's share with the listeners why we're bringing this to the Revelation Within podcast. How about if you broach that topic for us?Speaker 3:
Well, what I have heard and what I have seen. I'll start with one of the experts, Dr Patrick Carnes, Because he shares the food and sex connection and why it matters. They're both necessary for life. They're both necessary. It's part of survival. We need food to survive, we need sex to survive. It's part of procreation and on the other end of that, it's pleasure. We find pleasure in food, we find pleasure in sex and it's all good. It's the enemy who has distorted the goodness of all of that.Speaker 1:
There's definitely a heart connection and a brain connection and Dr Patrick Carnes goes very deeply into that brain connection and how it affects us. And we go to these coping mechanisms food, sex, drugs, alcohol you fill in the blank with the affliction. It's shopping, shoplifting. It releases dopamine. It releases that chemical in our brain that keeps us coming back for more Right and eventually we're not satisfied. So we have to go to deeper afflictions or we'll trade afflictions. It's all a coping mechanism and it is all often rooted in the brain, Rooted in a deeper issue and in the form of trauma. Often, A lot of times, starts in childhood and when we talk about trauma we're talking big T traumas and little T traumas. And big T traumas are those. Sometimes it's that one time event. Maybe it's equivalent to what happens with a soldier who goes to war and they experience trauma in that way. They're seeing death all around them. It's equivalent to a woman or a man being raped. It's a car accident, the death of a loved one, and I'm going to put betrayal in there, because research has found that betrayal trauma is equal to and shows up the same in men and women as it does with trauma from any of those other things I've listed. It causes post-traumatic stress disorder, anxiety, depression. The list just goes on and on. And then the small T traumas are the smaller things. Like you were teased as a child, or somebody said something to you over and over again, repeating that message over and over, and you began to believe that lie and believe that is your truth. That's traumatic being bullied. There's so much of that happening right now.Speaker 2:
And I love when you say that. Like really, I hear that all the time too. Well, I have really not been through any kind of trauma. I had a good childhood, and that was part of our story too. My husband had no idea of the trauma that he really experienced in childhood until he started doing the work with Steve and just talking through some of the things. Like we are here having a conversation and all of a sudden it's like whoa, that was trauma.Speaker 2:
Would you clarify, for the benefit of the listeners, what are you referring to when you speak of betrayal?Speaker 3:
Okay, yeah, betrayal. Betrayal can look a few different ways, but mainly betrayal In our story. How it looked was my husband had sexual addiction and it started with pornography, and the pornography eventually ended up going to deeper, darker things and ended up leading him to have an affair with another woman, and so that's betrayal, one of the things that a lot of women, a lot of people, even men, don't really understand now we are so desensitized to sex.Speaker 1:
We're so desensitized to seeing sexual images and hearing words. And you know the songs that are played on the radio. You know, on the mainstream radio the movies we're watching just commercials. You know you can't even watch an innocent little toilet paper commercial without getting some nice sexual content. We have just become so desensitized and the youth of today I'm like the teens, the 20s, the 30s and up they don't see pornography and masturbation or fantasizing any of that as bad. It's just normal. And it's not just the guys, I'm telling you, the girls, they're right there too. That is a fast growing number that is changing. You know where it used to be more the men were into this sexual addiction and masturbation for their coping, but it's really women and young children. I mean, it's starting so young now. It used to be. You know, in my age group a lot of the stories we've heard men and women started in like 12, 13 years old and now it's like seven and eight years old. You know devices in our hands at a young age and you can't put enough filters on those devices to protect children and even ourselves from what we see. I mean Instagram, facebook. You think you're protected, but it's just these constant images being filtered through and we've become so desensitized to it. That is a form of betrayal. We are being betrayed and duped. You know, society has made it so okay that it looks like wow, where do we go from here? We have a real age right. We'll battle on our hands, infotrating into our school systems. I mean, you can see, if you watch the news at all. You know our parents. They're going to board meetings. They're trying to stand up and say look, look at these books that you're allowed to read. These are the books that you're allowing in our schools. This is what you're teaching. The board members can't even listen to it. They're like please stop. You know this is awful. Well, this is what you're teaching the children. It is betrayal, and you know Jesus. Jesus is not blind to it. He experienced betrayal in his story and so he is who we look to for help in this battle, amen to that. And so I think that's the answer for it.Speaker 2:
One of the reasons why we wanted to bring this to the forefront and invite you, sherry, to even offer one of your small groups as an online class for us, is because I've seen an overlap in these populations, and I've also been part of the one betrayed by somebody who had an inappropriate relationship with pornography and sexual addiction and all of that, and I've also been somebody who struggles with food and eating challenges myself and body image challenges, and so the women I've coached and I've interacted with over the years, I've seen that they come to me with food and eating challenges, like Christina said earlier, but many of them were raised in an environment where the men in their lives perhaps had an inappropriate sexual behavior towards them, maybe they were even molested by somebody they knew, or there was pornography in the home, and so they have food and eating issues, yes, and that's what they want to address when they come to us, but that is a part of their story too, and so I thought let's not keep this separate any longer. If people need to talk about it and have a safe place to process it, we want them to have the freedom to do that, and so that's kind of why I wanted to do that.Speaker 2:
When I think about all the women who we have coached together or who I have coached one on one, I mean there really is a high percentage. It's not always sexual abuse, but it's abuse of some kind, and that's betrayal too, Isn't it? Could you speak to that as well?Speaker 3:
Sherry. Well, it is abuse. That's why I was saying Jesus is not something that he didn't experience, even Abuse right and to his world. We see that absolutely abuse. I mean I can share just a little bit about my childhood and when I share with women in my groups, betrayal happened for me. As a child I experienced betrayal in the form of sexual abuse. I had been molested, so that was a part of my story Absolutely. I'm so sorry, Sherry. Oh, thank you. And it doesn't always have to. You're right, it doesn't always have to look like sexual abuse. It can be physical, it can be verbal. Oh verbal abuse is as damaging, if not sometimes worse, because we buy into the messages that we hear. You know our brain takes in that information when we're young and we begin to believe the truth. Through my betrayal as a child, I experienced deep shame and fear and now, looking back, I can say anger. But I didn't understand that until I got it healing. For me it was in the form of anxiety and depression, and I've heard it said that way. People are either angry and act out, and you can see their anger, or they act in and it shows up as depression and anxiety. And that is how it showed up in me. So I had to deal with the shame that was not mine, fear and anger. You know the underlining anger, the sadness of being betrayed, and you know losing my childhood, losing a part of me, and it carried through into my adult life. I have had challenges in my marriage because of it. You know, I struggled with sexual anorexia, or, you know, I would either be on the binge side of it or the anorexic side of it, or sometimes it would just feel so disinterested. Well, that is not good. I mean, that is a part of marriage, that's intimacy that God created for us. It's good. Yes, that had to be part of my healing process.Speaker 1:
Thank you for sharing that. Sherry. Let's back up for just a minute if you don't mind. Would you elaborate a little bit? You mentioned binging and anorexia, but in the context of sexual behavior, and obviously anorexia and binging are words that Christine and I are very familiar with in our realm of disordered eating behaviors and whatnot. But what do you mean by that? Because it sounds like yet another way that sex and eating might have. You know, the misbehaviors associated with either the things that we do out of God's perfect plan for each, it's another way. They have something in common where they're distorted in some way and result in these behaviors. So could you elaborate on that a little bit?Speaker 3:
Or what it comes down to is the overeating or the anorexia. It's a coping mechanism. It's the cycle that we get into. Basically, we are trying to avoid pain or we're protecting ourselves. We're not consciously thinking that's what we're doing, but something happens in our world and we go to our coping mechanism to try and ease the pain or to feel comfort or pleasure or even pleasure that might look like binging, and it could be food or it could be sex. and then in that cycle, usually after, we feel shame and I can share that in my own story this is exactly what I would do and I would go through periods of time of anorexia because of the shame that I experienced. It's like, oh well, we can't do that. It can show up as even a form of punishment, but then we end up going back to that same behavior because that is the coping mechanism that we need to soothe, to cope, to avoid the pain, and it goes around and around. We have to do something to break that cycle and it's a brain component. It isn't enough to just say stop stop being that stop or stop starving yourself or stop having sex, or it really doesn't work. You have to create a new rut in that brain, a new neural pathway, as you guys share on your podcast. You have to renew the mind. We've got to use the word of God and I have found in these groups are a really good place to start because, one, you learn that you're not alone. So much of it is because of the shame and the fears that are attached to it. You don't want to talk to people about it. You don't want to tell anybody your deep, dark secret or that my spouse is experiencing this and it's embarrassing, or there's so much attached to it. But when you take that step to join a group and talk to someone, you learn that you're not alone, that there are other people that are experiencing it. Our stories are all different, but we all experience the same things. I mean, that's just the bottom line. We all experience the shame and the fear and anger that comes with it, the sadness, all of that, and then digging in deep with somebody one-on-one, and it really does take a safe place and safe people. You have to find that safe place to be able to do that, and people won't open up unless they feel safe. You can't get to that place of healing unless you feel that this is a safe person or this is a safe group and you can't talk to anybody about it. And I mean that in the way that not everybody understands trauma and not everybody understands betrayal, and they have good intentions and they say well-meaning things, even biblical things, but they don't truly understand and haven't walked in those shoes. So there's wisdom in finding you know, praying and asking God to show you where to go. Who can I talk to? And, heidi and Christina, you guys have created a safe community and I think you do have a place where people will open up to you, and I hope so Just a few minutes ago, you said something about shame.Speaker 2:
So many of our ladies come to us with issues of deep, debilitating shame and you said that you brought shame that was not your own into your adulthood, something like that. It wasn't an exact quote, but I just wanted to ask you about shame and what did you mean that it wasn't your own?Speaker 3:
when I was referring to what I consider my first betrayal and being molested as a child. I, as you know a four or five year old young girl, all of a sudden felt shame and I wouldn't have been able to voice that as that young girl. I know now as a 53 year old woman. I know that that was shame. But as a child I didn't know that what it was called. I just had the feelings of shame, and it wasn't mine because I was the innocent victim in that situation. The shame really was on the abuser, the person who betrayed me, but that's what happens when we're children and we don't have healthy adults around us to help us process through what just happened. Then we decide in our little minds how we perceive it and we take it on as our truth.Speaker 2:
Thank you, I just wanted to bring that out. That just felt like it was really important to share.Speaker 1:
In our groups we often talk about the shame comfort cycle and how, when we are in shame, it doesn't even matter where it came from for this cycle to happen. We end up wanting to shut down that shame so much that we go to something that gives us comfort or numbs us out and then we can actually end up feeling guilt and shame for what we did. To not feel the guilt and shame. And then this nasty cycle and whether it's inappropriate sexual behavior or a disordered relationship with food, eating and body, I think that shame component wants to follow us around. We have to escape, and I think what you just said about community, a safe community and renewing the mind, those are the, those are the vital factors in escaping that sense of shame and even the inappropriate behaviors we may have that we turn to for comfort or shutting off feeling at all. So I'm so glad you mentioned that.Speaker 2:
Well, and I think the other thing, too that I hear so often is people want to know is there hope for me? I am so wounded, I am so messed up. I have been struggling with these behaviors and these cycles for so many years. Am I too far gone? Is there hope? If you could address that?Speaker 3:
Well, there is hope and I share my story a lot because and I really go deeper when I'm leading a group- you know, it's hard to do on a podcast or, you know, in a small little testimony thing, but I mean, I was so broken and, like I said, my trauma began when I was very, very young. But a young mother and my parents were young and there was alcohol and drugs early on in my world and a lot of things happen in that realm that that is unhealthy. We were all unhealthy and I carried all of that into every relationship I ever had female, male, my family, with my friends, with co-workers and I was a complete mess. I had some really good healing in my 30s and thought that we were doing really good in life. You know, like we were slaying it. You know I had his business, I had my business and we were really doing great bought our first home. You know we have a son and he was doing great. You know it was. It was great. And yet I had just this deep sense of unhappiness inside I could not shake and just depression and anxiety that was almost debilitating and I had to really work through that. And I got into a healing group back then and worked through a lot of my childhood issues that I'd never addressed. So I was 35 just doing that and had some really good healing. And then, seven-ish years later, is when our betrayal happened in our marriage and everything fell apart. I mean the rug was just torn out from under me. That's how I felt and it was like we were at ground zero and I just thought how is this happening? I had, through our betrayal, gotten to such a point where I was so depressed I was even contemplating suicide. It was something that I struggled with as a teenager and I just had the ideology of it. You know, I had ideas that I couldn't deal with the pain any longer and this was my only way out, and I would come up with plans. I mean, I would go all the way through and God would always find me. He would always meet me somewhere he'd you know, on the floor of the bathroom, you know, as I'm just like ready to make that mistake, and he would be there and say I got you, I see you, I see your pain. And it got so bad at one point that I ended up in the hospital. I was having a nervous breakdown and you know, and here I am, I'm walking with the Lord, I'm on the right track, and now our world has been turned upside down and I'm in the hospital, I, you know, and I end up getting admitted into the mental ward like I was so sick to me. That was my bottom. That was my bottom, and I knew that I could not go on like this any longer. Him taking me out of that world and having just a little bit of time to you know, see what was going on from a different perspective, gave me a chance to decide. I needed to make some big changes, and, and so I had decided that my marriage was probably going to have to end and sought out help from our pastors, and I never wanted the divorce that was never my intention, but it was looking like if Stephen couldn't turn things around on his end, that's probably what was going to have to happen, because I had gotten so sick. So it was then that I had to create a safety plan for myself and that I had learned from the other healing programs I had been through. It was even before I got to betrayal. Thank the Lord that I did have some healing and I did have some recovery under me when this all happened, because I had some tools and so I did. I, you know, I created the safety plan and what I was going to have to do and and I prayed and I actually had to put my husband kind of in a compartment and say you know what, lord, he's your son, he's my brother in Christ right now and I'm going to pray for him from that point and you're going to be my husband and we're going to figure this out together. This is a matter of life and death and we're losing our brother and I really felt that way. I really felt like you know, that we had lost Stephen. He was so far gone with the drugs and having an affair and I was losing myself. In the process also, I felt like I was losing my sanity. I couldn't decide what was true and what was false anymore. So that's when I reached really reached out for help and prayed God. Where do I go for help? Who do I talk to about this? You know, like this, this is something I don't want to talk to anybody about and he was faithful. He gave me a couple of people to talk to and and they had been through betrayal. He knows, he knows and we have to trust him in the process. And I got connected with the betrayal and beyond gals, and that's where Heidi and I met.Speaker 1:
So let's talk for a minute, before we wrap up, about what can somebody do who can identify with that feeling of betrayal or the feeling of shame, and they're ready to talk about it, they're ready to go after it. What are some things that they can do, or where can they find you, or what can we offer them by way of help?Speaker 3:
Well, the first thing I would say is to pray. God sees all, he knows all he knows more than we do, especially if we're in crisis. We can only see this. You know you can't see my hands, but you can only see what's right in front of you. And oftentimes you're so close to the situation that you can't make good decisions. We call it in group crisis. You might even be in crisis and you can't make decisions for yourself. So you have to pray and ask God who can I reach out to, who would really understand what I'm going through? And I would say Christina and Heidi are an excellent place to start. You already know her, you trust her and they can point you in the right direction. I am available. I can be reached at sherry at gracestreetministriescom, and sherry is spelled S-H-E-R-R-Y. We are in transition with Grace Street, so the website is not up yet. We're working on that right now and the email may even change in a while, but for now that is the best way to reach me, or through Heidi. Heidi can pass along my number.Speaker 1:
We talked about offering a class. Do we have anything to say to the people about that or not?Speaker 3:
yet we don't have it set in stone on the dates yet, but I would love to just hear some feedback If women are interested. There's a couple of different groups that I offer. One is Betrayal and Beyond, and it is for women who have experienced betrayal in their life, and I do extend an invitation to people who maybe they don't think that they have betrayal in their current relationship but, maybe they have experienced it somewhere in their life. They will benefit from the material in this study. It is good stuff, it is very good, and I was surprised at the healing. It's like, okay, so I was here because of the betrayal that was going on in my relationship, but what I ended up healing from was a whole bucket of stuff. And then the other group is called Unraveled and it is managing relationships. It's managing love, sex and relationship issues. And it is excellent. Also, women can always relate to sexual addiction, but you've got to look at it as it's so much more broad for women. We're more complex, we just are we are. And even I kind of struggled with it. At first I was like I don't really have sex addiction, but if I'm really honest, I watched pornography with my husband. I thought there was a time in my life, especially before Christ, where I thought that's what we do, that was something he did and I thought I should be doing it with him because that was part of marriage or something. And that's a lie. It is not. It is a lie and that is not how God created for our sexual intimacy to be, and so it's a great study to dive into parts of that. But if you can't relate to that, you're in relationship. We have love. Addiction is a really real thing. I've even heard it in myself. We love everything. We love everything. We love love. We love, love, love. We need to get back to what you guys talk about in your ministry is renewing the mind and allowing God to show us how did he design relationship to be with our girlfriends and our families and our spouses, our boyfriends, whatever. How did you design it, god? Because what we're learning in society, it's not truth.Speaker 2:
It's very sorted.Speaker 3:
We need to get back to the garden.Speaker 1:
So when your website is live, what is that URL going to be?Speaker 3:
That is going to be grace street coachingcom. Okay.Speaker 1:
So if somebody wants to, they can keep trying to find that, and as soon as it's live, it'll be there.Speaker 3:
Yes, yes, it is in the work.Speaker 1:
Well, thank you so much, sherry. I appreciate your time and your message of hope and healing, and if a person wants to find out more about Unraveled or Betrayal and Beyond, can they find that somewhere, that curriculum somewhere online.Speaker 3:
Oh, absolutely Go to puredesireorg and they have all their materials there. There's also another small study I would love to do, and oftentimes it's done before Betrayal and Beyond, and it's a small little book called Stories for Women and it's a portrait of hope and it's just small little stories that they walk you through and it's a great little book to read because people can't always relate or they don't think they can. But when you start reading these stories you start seeing oh yeah, that happened in my life or I can relate to that. It shows up in a lot of different ways. That's another little story that I'm excited to introduce and do with women Great, Awesome.Speaker 2:
Sherry, thank you so much for being here today, thanks for having me, and we're so glad that you have been with us, whoever's listening today, and we hope this has been helpful and life giving for you, bringing you some hope in your journey, and we're looking forward to seeing you at our next podcast episode of Revelation Within on the go. Bye.Speaker 1:
Take care, see you next time. Bye, bye, bye.